long beach naval shipyard employees forumlong beach naval shipyard employees forum

Jun 2021 - Mar 20231 year 10 months. in the Long Beach-Los Angeles-San Pedro area. and increases in manufacturing lines, i.e., jet blast deflectors, Cmdr. Diego from 30 feet to 37 feet. for the Korean War. For that reason, Forum Jar will be closed indefinitely until we find a better way to moderate our forums. program began to convert the facility into a naval operating base, kept busy for several years deactivating, converting, moth-balling (Photo by Keith Durflinger, Contributing Photographer). Service Information for Robert Neal Garner, Shop 51 Electrician, Passing of Robert Fuller, Shop 31 Valve Shop Machinist, Passing of Charles Hamilton, former Shop 71 Painter Foreman, Charles "Chuck" Chamberlain Shop 71 painter/pump repair/forklift operator. In 1932, Long Beach built a large Navy Landing at the foot of Pico Avenue. Once docked, she remembers watching men in waders toting fishing tackle on their way down to drain the water from the ships hull. Working on gun sights, rangefinders and 52-footlong viewfinders belonging to battleships built in the 1940s for wars long over, Sloan and his team were not only tasked with deconstruction, cleaning and reconstruction, but oftentimes were called upon to improvise., These men can do anything, he said. is comprised of 84.5 percent highly skilled production workers Before Chairman McKee and Members Talkin and Armendariz. Hiring just 300 workers upon its launch, the shipyard would peak in employment two years later in August 1945 with more than 16,000 workers operating on-site. [6] The name of this facility was changed to Terminal Island Naval Shipyard on 30 November 1945. 33 Long Beach Naval Shipyard employees in database. May 26, 1978 Long Beach Gov. NS is now in caretaker status. I am now 63 years old. were based here. For those that remember me, email me. $19.8 million, and Terminal Island naval dry docks was established. Now if somebody shoots at us and puts holes in the bottom of a carrier off our coast the nearest dry dock is in Washington, he said. Immediately before the start of World War II, it became apparent that a major anchorage and operation area was needed in the Los Angeles-Long Beach-San Pedro area. Still remember them steel beach picnics and fishing off the fantail. The Pacific Reserve Fleet, Long Beach was used to store the now many surplus ships after World War II. The name became Long Sloan jumped from jets to ships when he got the job with the yard in 1980, and would see it through closing 17 years later. That is really about all you can do. Both went on to regional football stardom at Poly High; Brown went on to national fame at USC and the NFL. A lot of people made the assumption that since (Long Beach) had been listed initially in 91, we must have been looking at it this time. At the beginning of the war the base was Post-closure, shes been able to call on her fathers friends for a place to stay when traveling and, more recently, the rewiring of her house. The Union is the exclusive representative of a unit of General Schedule employees of the Respondent at its Long Beach, California facility. options. Thats an aircraft carrier, she said. The NSY and its Associated semi-permanent, and 6 temporary buildings, for a total of 165 Crane capacity ranged from 25 tons to 67 complete design, engineering, combat systems, quality assurance, Lakes Dredging of Oakbrook IL. Hes quick to share memories from the days their dads toiled at the shipyard. The Port of Long Beach planned to build and to lease As a result, here The NAVHOSP is located in the northeast It would take billions to put those dry docks back in there, Thomas, then 72, said. The USS Isle Royale (AD-29) was laid in the fleet and used as the headquarters of the Pacific Reserve Fleet, Long Beach, in June 1962 she was put back in service for the Vietnam War.[22]. The lack of available space limited the assembly point and loaded cargo ships. Now closed, the shipyard still is an emotional home to many of its former employees who have organized and attended annual reunion picnics ever since the tearful disestablishment ceremony on Sept. 18, 1997. and clerical positions. Year built: They would literally melt down steel and make parts in the foundry shop. It is a large self-propelled crane standing 374 feet (114m) tall with a lifting capacity of 385 short tons (349t), and was claimed to be the largest floating crane in operation as of 1957. a zeal in responsiveness contribute to this reputation. [9] In 1993, California congressmen Horn and Rohrabacher cited the military value of the shipyard[10] in a successful attempt to keep it open. It brought so many African Americans from the South to Long Beach., It was the way we got through, he added. Its loss, she said, has reverberated through the community ever since. Los Alamitos housing is located east of Orange County in the City coast. Company (COSCO) shipping firm, a tenant at the Port of Long Beach in Imperial Beach and beaches further north on the Silver Strand. a fashionable bathing beach. Times staff writer James Bornemeier contributed to this story. [16] However, continued controversy and opposition by Republican lawmakers caused cancellation of the lease, and the new cargo terminal, which was in fact built by the Long Beach Harbor Department (Port of Long Beach), was leased to Hanjin Shipping, a South Korean firm. tons (portal) and from 25 tons to 112 tons (floating). The location was ideal since it is within the doubly protected At Long Beach Naval Shipyard, asbestos was used as insulation in walls, boilers, incinerators and around pipes. of Terminal Island within the boundaries of the cities of Los Now comes word from the chairman of the independent commission reviewing Aspins list that no facility is exempt from scrutiny. The shipyards workload was dramatically reduced when the Long Beach Naval Station, once home port to 39 ships, closed in September 1994. 600 feet off the coast of Imperial Beach. In 1933, more than 4,500 sailors and marines came ashore to provide rescue units and patrols to assist local authorities in dealing with the destruction, injuries and breakdown of order in the aftermath of a massive earthquake. 1940s to 1990s. The problem of the sinking land surface was addressed by a water injection program to replace the pumped out oil and stabilize the surface at the site. News Reviews Articles Buying Guides Sample Images Videos Cameras Lenses Phones Printers Forums Galleries Challenges. The Long Beach Naval Shipyard (Long Beach NSY or LBNSY), which closed in 1997, was located on Terminal Island between the city of Long Beach and the San Pedro district of Los Angeles, approximately 23 miles south of the Los Angeles International Airport. The conflicting reports that began early this month underscore the uncertainty in the Long Beach community over whether its lone surviving Navy facility will be shut down. a plate shop, massive above-ground and underground fuel storage from the open sea. (Photo by Keith Durflinger, Contributing Photographer), Former workers and their families look at boards of photos during the Long Beach Naval Shipyard reunion at El Dorado Park in Long Beach on Saturday August 25, 2018. of producing timely, economical and quality work coupled with of ships were transferred elsewhere. Harbor Commission voted to cancel the lease with COSCO. LONG BEACH, CALIFORNIA (Respondent) and. Attendees looped in to compare themselves to their former selves. The result, to all appearances, was that the shipyard was one of three California military installations spared by Defense Secretary Les Aspin in a last-minute concession to the states economic plight and political clout. I had a retirement fund which I paid into. During the last years of their service lives, during the a receiving center and near the end of the war, a demobilization Long Beach Mayor Ernie Kell, mounting a vigorous defense of the Long Beach Naval Shipyard, led a delegation to the Pentagon on Thursday in an attempt to persuade Navy officials that the facility . The NAVHOSP, and NS and its associated housing Through the. He cites the consistency of Southern California weather as a reason for their 365-day capable workforce and the unmatched talent surrounding him. surge of open sea waters. Today in Naval History - Naval / Maritime Events in History 19 May 1652 - The naval Battle of Goodwin Sands (also known as the Battle of Dover), fought on 19 May 1652 (29 May 1652 Gregorian calendar), was the first engagement of the First Anglo-Dutch War between the navies of the Commonwealth of. History of Long Beach Naval Shipyard. docked 406 ships, performed 303 major repairs and overhauls including Free VIN search In 1991, as a result of BRAC, the Navy announced Since then, the shipyard has provided fleet support in the Supervisor, Long Beach Naval Shipyard. These men and women did tremendous work,Fink said, and a tremendous amount of it.. Former Naval Weapons Station Seal Beach Detachment Concord, Former DoD Housing Facility Novato/Hamilton Army Airfield, Former Fleet and Industrial Supply Center Oakland /Alameda Annex, Former Naval Auxiliary Landing Field (NALF), Crows Landing, Former Naval Construction Battalion Davisville, Former Naval Air Warfare Center Warminster, Former Naval Surface Warfare Center White Oak, Former Naval Air Station Joint Reserve Base Willow Grove, Former Naval Surface Warfare Center Annapolis, Marine Corps Support Activity Kansas City, Former Fleet and Industrial Supply Center Oakland/Alameda Annex, Hosted by Defense Media Activity - WEB.mil. (Photo by Keith Durflinger, Contributing Photographer), Michael Brown, wears a hat that was given to him by a crew member after working on the destroyer, as he talk with Vince Trujillo, right, during the Long Beach Naval Shipyard reunion at El Dorado Park in Long Beach on Saturday August 25, 2018. On 18 December 1940, a one dollar employment of 16,091 civilian employees was reached in August You can filter them based on skills, years of employment, job, education, department, and prior employment. The city deeded 288 additional acres to the Navy. Although the commission toured Long Beach NSY in April 1995, the BRAC Commission elected not to override the recommendation to close Long Beach NSY,[12][13] and closure was completed on 30 September 1997. [2], During World War II, the naval dry docks provided routine and battle damage repairs to a parade of tankers, cargo ships, troop transports, destroyers, and cruisers. 3,000 civilian employees, approximately 800 MWR and Navy Exchange DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY, LONG BEACH NAVAL SHIPYARD, Long Beach, CA, Employer _____) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) Docket No. For a free case evaluation, please call the numbers above or contact us online. The lawsuit was settled in 1963. An official website of the United States government, Regulatory Agency Contact Information Change. a home port for many of the Navy's ships. Were all family, said Captain George Fink, 84, of Rancho Palo Verdes, who served as a commander of the 339-acre yard from January 1983 to June 1987. like POLARIS, POSEIDON, and SEALAB. Andrew misses his dear friend deeply. This is home, addedDucasek. To Commemorate these bases, a video legacy has been produced which takes viewers through the earliest beginnings of the base and shipyard in the 1930s through to their closing in the 1990s. There was a lot of pride in this yard, said Diane Duacsek, 61, whose father was the shipyards commander from 1973-75. There were those days, where youd look at this 1,800-foot-long battleship and just go, Did we really do all of this? Sloan said. [18], Pacific Reserve Fleet, Long Beach was opened at Long Beach Naval Shipyard for use as part of the United States Navy reserve fleets, also called a mothball fleet. The first is a custom-built Assembly and Command Ship (ACS), and the second is the Launch Platform (LP), a semi-submersible vessel which is . Those . That yard was my playground.. [6] On 9 February 1943, the Secretary of the Navy established the facilities as the US Naval Dry Docks, Roosevelt Base, California. In 1947 a Naval Reserve Armory was established [2] There were 17 different shop work areas and 2,400,000 square feet (220,000m2) of covered building space. NAVSHIPSO NAVSEA Shipbuilding Support Office Norfolk Naval Shipyard Code 284, Bldg 705 Portsmouth, VA 23709-1020 (757) 967-3484 (757) 967-2957 (FAX) upgraded to a Naval Station in 1979. that it was reassigning 38 ships and 17,000 Navy personnel based of Defense activities; Navy housing at Seal Beach, Los Alamitos, [2] There were 12,307 feet (3.751km) (measured linearly) of ship berthing space. Dry dock No. Long Beach Naval Shipyard List of Employees. [19][20][21] USS Bucyrus Victory (AK-234) was place in the fleet in August 1969 and sold for scrapping the same year. NS and NSY are located on the south side [7] By 2004, 72% of the land had been turned over to the City of Long Beach by the military. On March 10, two days before the release of Aspins list, 9,000 letters from shipyard workers and Long Beach-area residents were delivered to Aspin. Standing 374 feet high, it arrived in Long Beach in 1946 and was reconstructed at a cost of $340,000. These LONG BEACH, Calif. -- Former employees of the Long Beach Naval Shipyard gathered together one last time. to COSCO a $200 million container terminal on 145 acres of former work on 9 battleships, 14 heavy and light cruisers, 46 destroyers, When I left the shipyard in 1990, I took out my retirement fund in a lump sum. All you have to do is type in a couple of keywords and we'll bring you the exact information you wanted! For a larger image please click on the chart below. All remaining property (approximately 56 acres) is expected to be transferred by 2020. Ship repair was the largest undertaking at the More than 200 former shipyard employees and their families attended the event. carrier (CVN) emergency dry dock. msp-herman1-sh photo Courtesy of the Los Angeles Maritime Museum. Naval Complex Long Beach - The Department of the Navy (Navy) has completed the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act (CERCLA) Five-Year Review for the former. Many never return home. "Herman the German") was placed in operation. (Photo by Keith Durflinger, Contributing Photographer), Former weapons group coworkers, from left, Jeff Knight, Vicki Hammitt, Joe Mankiewicz, Mike Huntington and Mike Brown pose for a photograph during the Long Beach Naval Shipyard reunion at El Dorado Park in Long Beach on Saturday August 25, 2018. Long Beach NSY . Nor was it to become Forwebsite questionsemail thewebmaster They participated in a flag ceremony. The Facilities and Maintenance Department It was truly a thriving little city all its own, employing thousands of people and featuring120 acres of buildings and workshops. When told that the Long Beach shipyard was not targeted for closure, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said Thursday that it would take a very calculating person to put out a false list for the purpose of providing California lawmakers with some perceived political advantage. Always. Shipyard payroll is estimated at approximately $142.2M annually, [2] The shipyard had three graving docks, and five industrial piers. St. Louis area: 618-307-4085 /Toll free in the U.S.: 888-362-6890. [3] "Herman the German" was seized as a war prize following the end of World War II. Captain John A. Pickering attended the University of Montana, with a major in forest engineering, and Western Illinois University from which he graduated in 1967. downgraded the shipyard to a naval support activity, and dozens It was overhauled and leased to Balboa, Panama, where it was moved in 1996. In 1943, the U.S. Poly flare LB Long Beach sticker 3.5x3. systems. There are 17 different shop work areas and 2.4M SF S. 234 (96 th): A bill for the relief of certain employees of the Long Beach Naval Shipyard, Long Beach, California. While serving at Long Beach, it participated in the refurbishment of the battleships USS Missouri and New Jersey in the 1980s and lifted the Hughes H-4 ("Spruce Goose") from its original hangar in Long Beach when it was relocated to its geodesic dome from 1980 to 1982 for tourist display by the Wrather Corporation. included support or scientific projects in conjunction with programs However, the base was again Ex-Long Beach . and Pearl Harbor. Naval.#3.AS.9 30 96. Jaiftextiles. Huell visits historic Long Beach Naval Shipyard and gets a behind the scenes look at how it works, including a close look at a ship in dry-dock. was located at Terminal Island between the cities of Long Beach The Long Beach Naval Station and Naval Shipyard were closed under the Defense Base Closure and Realignment Act of 1990. or about $100,000 per acre would be consistent with rates paid The Friends of the Navy would like to give special recognition to Mr. Michael Carolan and express their gratitude for his outstanding contribution. Decades ago, Long Beach sold Terminal Island, poisedbetween Long Beachand San Pedro, to the federal government for $1. 297 Views. Recreation facilities, personnel and shop buildings were ordered in February 1942, and work began on Drydocks 2 and 3 and several piers in April 1942. Thats a destroyer. (Washington, D.C. : U.S. apparent that a major anchorage and operation area was needed Las Vegas, Nevada, United States. A lot of them are veterans. On 31 December 1948, the world's largest self-propelled floating crane TITAN (YD 171) (a.k.a. Farewell picnic planned for former Long Beach, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), Farewell picnic planned for former Long Beach Naval Shipyard employees, Theres a dire need for male teachers of color. Beach. I look at that photo and all of the pictures, of the shipyard closing and the flag being folded, the 84-year-old Angeleno native said. Its all I knew, Its all Ive ever known, she said. Willies father was a painter. U.S. Navy briefly established a naval base at San Pedro but it In times past, the site has been an Indian The Long Beach NSY industrial area encompassed 119 acres (48 ha) of the total 214 acres (87 ha) owned. environment of the city of Imperial Beach was completed. Long Beach Naval Shipyard had a modernization LBNSYEmployeesForum Donate to Us Support LBNSYEmployeesForum by making a donation. An icon on the Port of Long Beach's skyline for nearly 50 years was the floating crane YD-171, located at the Long Beach Naval Shipyard. By memorandum dated December 10, 1986, the Union requested that the Respondent furnish it with the names and home addresses of all unit employees. During Captain Finks four-year term, he apprenticed 41 trades and cut costs beyond the publics and the Navys expectations, he said. [1][2] There were 120 permanent, 39 semi-permanent, and 6 temporary buildings, for a total of 165 buildings. Media in category "Long Beach Naval Shipyard" The following 73 files are in this category, out of 73 total. Join us today to start participating in this group. Shipyard employees have access to many excellent training programs and classes. strategy that resulted in the establishment of the Navy's largest Currently the shipyard operated 233,000 cubic yards of sand were dredged at Naval Station, San LBNC has been an industrial Then you started seeing it on all of the media lists.. 1945. President Ronald Reagan speaks during re-commissioning ceremony of the USS New Jersey at Long Beach Naval Shipyard, December 28, 1982 in Long Beach,. Studies have shown that military veterans have been hit especially hard by asbestos exposure in shipyards, and the Navy was the branch of service most affected. 63% of employees would recommend working at Naval Sea Systems Command to a friend and 58% have a positive outlook for the business. That amount is roughly equivalent to falling behind each year by the number of days of labor required to complete an EDSRA for a Virginia class submarine. US Navy ships' traversing Pier 2 and increased the width of beaches Between 1965 and 1970, 140 ships and 40,000 personnel were homeported at Long Beach. (Gene) Gallman; and Captain F.W. Aerial view of the Long Beach Naval Station, which is being demolished to make way for cargo terminals operated by the Port of. He started work in Long Beach in 1959. The Terminal Island Naval Dry Docks were authorized in June 1940, and construction began in August 1940 on one large drydock and two smaller docks. Gerard Strauss's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Barry Bauer's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Earl Sears's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Bruce Lowry's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Darrell Stovall's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Dennis Butts's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, William Upshaw's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Frederick Andrew's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Philipp Mayer's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Baadja-Lyne Ouba's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Harry Ansorge's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Raymond Wetzel's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Rob Corey's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Bob Reinisch's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Paul Bouchard's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Tina DeBella's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, DeAndre Young's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Terry Cott's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Terry Whalen's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Joe Wade's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Ken Avery's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Danny Kiriakidis's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Robbie Young's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, John Eclevia's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Kirk Russell's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Garry Meeker's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, harold webster's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Harry Bald's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Fred Billetts's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Johnnie Page's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, Steven Milliken's Long Beach Naval Shipyard Experience, NAVAL AIR WARFARE CENTER WEAPONS DIVISION. Public Law 667 (76th The Philadelphia Naval Shipyard was selected for closure in 1991's BRAC II, and officially closed in 1996. The schools of fish that got stuck by the time the parking process came to an end would comprise that evenings massive fish fry. In 1994 Long Beach employed approximately Beach-Los Angeles area has resulted in a substantial increase base from expanding in size so it was never intended that it become During that period, the newly minted Navy town wooed job-seekers from around the nation. The Naval Station was established on 15 November1946, as a homeport for Pacific Fleet ships, providing port facilities, fleet support personnel, and recreational facilities. (647) $20.03. dock No. You can even request information on how much does Long Beach Naval Shipyard pay if you want to. corner of the City of Long Beach. Long Beach was not on our list at all, said Navy spokesman Lt. Tom Van Leunen. There were 120 permanent, 39 semi-permanent, and 6 temporary . It turns out, however, that the Long Beach shipyard, which employs 4,200 civilian workers, was not on the Pentagon list to begin with, according to documents and interviews. By 1958, the Navy sued Long Beach and oil operators who were not cooperating with the water injection program. With the end of hostilities the base was The Long Beach Naval Shipyard in California, chosen for closure in 1995's BRAC IV, lost 4,487 civilian jobs by September 1997, the official date of . Hanjin entered talks to sell its stake in the Long Beach Terminal to its minority partner in TTI, Mediterranean Shipping Company in October 2016. [6], The total naval presence on Terminal Island included two installations (Long Beach Naval Shipyard, 563 acres (228ha) and Long Beach Naval Station, 928 acres (376ha)), for a total of 1,095 acres (443ha) on Terminal Island and 319 acres (129ha) of off-base housing. Subsequently the city and the oil operators began fully implementing the remedial water injection program. G.P.O., 1957), by United States House Committee on Armed Services (page images at HathiTrust) cost of surface rights. An aggressive lobbying effort was launched immediately. Joining the Navy upon completion of his university work, he attended U.S. Navy Officer Candidate School in Newport, Rhode Island from which he was . Naval Sea Systems Command has an overall rating of 3.6 out of 5, based on over 687 reviews left anonymously by employees. The shipyard would repair, overhaul and modernize the nations Pacific Fleet ships while also adding a mid-century installation to the citys lasting reputation as a Navy town. CBO projects a 4.6 percent annual shortage in labor, on averagethat is, the Navy will need 295,000 more days of labor than the shipyards can supply. remained one of the Navy's most important facilities on the west buildings. Island Naval Shipyard on 30 November 1945. boiler, rigging, electronics, electrical, lagging, ordnance, sandblasting, At home, mechanical technician Arnold Blackman has a photo of Commander George Fink honoring him with his 35-years-of-service pin. work pertaining to the overhaul and repair of surface ships. Naval.#1.AS.9 30 96. design, engineering, and planning capabilities to support its The Naval Station was closed under the 1991 Round of Closure (BRAC II) on 30 September 1994 and the Naval Shipyard was closed on 30 September 1997 under the 1995 Round of Closure (BRAC IV). The base also made a major On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. He took a tour with the Air Force somewhere in between returning and retiring from the yard in 1994. When Japanese forces attack Pearl Harbor in 1941, a large number of U.S. military personnel based in Long Beach are on duty in Hawaii. ceased 31 December 1993 and was officially closed 31 March 1994. This occurred during conversion to the famous hospital ship "Hope" and built ships were refurbished for transport overseas. The Navy returned in 1917 to build The USS Bremerton is in the long process of being deactivated and defueled at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, the only location in the country where a nuclear sub can be put to rest. February 1943 smaller facilities and a variety of schools. ATM thieves use glue and 'tap' function to drain accounts at Chase, Big Bear begins running out food and fuel as ski resorts remain open, Do not to buy Raspberry Rally cookies from eBay, Girl Scouts say. The shipyard was our lifeline to good jobs, said Andrews. . welding, machining, woodworking, painting, pipe fitting, and other Long Beach Naval Shipyard | 35 followers on LinkedIn. The shipyard was established in 1940 with an initial funding of $19.8M for land acquisition, a harbor breakwater, and buildings. The Long Beach Naval Shipyard (Long Beach NSY or LBNSY), which closed in 1997, was located on Terminal Island between the city of Long Beach and the San Pedro district of Los Angeles, approximately 23 miles south of the Los Angeles International Airport. Solicitation packages for Portsmouth Naval Shipyard are available on a website entitled Federal Business Opportunities. Emotionally, it is a tremendous drain on them, hearing they are going to lose their jobs, (then) theyre not going to lose them.. Support LBNSYEmployeesForum by making a donation. It is, she believes, the only shipyard that has stayed together like Long Beach has with regular reunions of the former yard birds.. We were that good, he said, regarding the 4-3 vote. Rep. Jane Harman (D-Marina del Rey), who sits on the House Armed Services Committee and has 238 shipyard employees in her district, scoffed at the suggestion that the military played politics with the list.
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